[Loud movement sounds. Voices inaudible over noise.]

OFFICER 1 (O1): Testing. Say hello.

LM: Hello.

O1: What’s your name?

LM: Lacresha Murray.

O1: Alright. Alright. You know, I’ve been having problems spelling your name. How do you spell your first name?

LM: L-a-c-r-e-s-h-a.

O1: Oh. O.k. Well, my name is Ernest.

LM: [Inaudible.]

O1: Yeh. Alright. My name is Ernest and this is Al and Angie. Have you met everybody before?

LM: Just her.

O1: Oh, okay.

OFFICER 2 (O2): I don’t think we met before.

O1: Yeah. Alright. Tell me a little bit about that shelter where you’re staying. Are you enjoying the place?...Not really? You want to go back home? That’s the place to be. Uh. What I want to. The reason I’m here, we’re going to talk about what happened Friday, okay? We’ll go over it. Somebody’s already talked to you, but we’re going to go over that same thing and I just need to fill in some holes. There’s some blanks in there and we just need to fill those in. But, also, what I want to do is, I got a little card here I need to read to you and I do this normally with everybody. When I talk to them. And these are called juvenile warnings, and these are kind of like your rights. Do you know what the constitution is? The U.S. Constitution. Well the U.S. Constitution gives everybody in America certain rights and you have also those rights, just like everybody else, but we have to tell you what those rights are so you know what you can do and what you can’t do, and before you talk to me. Anyway, it says that you have the right to have a lawyer present [other officer interjects--inaudible], to advise you either prior to or during any questioning. Do you understand that?..Okay. If you are unable to employ a lawyer, you have the right to have a lawyer appointed to counsel you prior to and during any questioning. Do you understand those rights? Okay. You have the right to remain silent and not make any statement at all. Any statement you make may be used and probably will be used as evidence against you in the court of law. Do you understand that? Okay. You have the right to terminate the interview at any time. Do you understand that? Okay. And it says here if you are fifteen years of age or older, at the time of a violation of the law, in the grade of a felony, the juvenile court may waive its jurisdiction and you may be tried as an adult. Do you understand that? Okay. Uh, basically we’re, you understood all those rights? You’ve heard them before, on tv shows probably, huh?

OFFICER 3 (O3): Lacresha, when you understand them, you might want to just say that I do understand them, or something like that just so, rather than just shake your head...

O2: Yeh, cause we’re being recorded and uh, the recording will not pick up your nods, but do you understand your rights?

LM: Yes.

O2: Do you understand them all completely?

LM: Yes.

O2: Do you have any questions about them?

LM: No.

O2: Okay, let’s go back to Friday. What time did you wake up Friday, do you remember?

LM: No.

O2: Okay. When you woke up, was Jayla at the house already?

LM: Yes.

O2: She was? Where was she at the time.

LM: She was looking at tv with my sister.

O2: Which tv was that?

LM: In the den. We made a den out of our garage.

O2: Right. Okay. So Jayla and her sister were in the den? And where were you?

LM: Where was I?

O2: Yes.

LM: I was in my grandpa’s room looking at tv.

O2: And where were the other kids?

LM: Tyler and Trenton, they were asleep. My sister was sleeping. My grandpa was in his bed. And Jason and Tyler was in the den looking at tv because they always get up early looking at cartoons. Trenton was asleep. Everybody was asleep.

O2: And you were watching tv? What were you watching?

LM: Hm?

O2: What show were you watching?

LM: Cartoons.

O2: Which one?

LM: I think it was Carmen San Diego. The cartoon.

O2: What’s the name of it?

LM: Carmen San Diego.

O2: Carmen San Diego? Is that normally in the morning or the afternoon?

LM: I think, its in the morning.

O2: In the morning? Do you know what time they show that cartoon? Okay. How long did you stay there watching tv?

LM: Stay where?

O2: Watching tv?

LM: I don’t know.

O2: You don’t know. Did you finish watching the cartoons?

LM: What?

O2: The cartoons.

LM: Yeh.

O2: And when that cartoon was over, did you stay there continue watching tv or did you go somewhere else? Did you go to the kitchen or did you go outside?

LM: My cousin came. My cousin came and then we went outside and started playing, cleaning out the pool and stuff.

O2: Your cousin, what’s his, what’s your cousin’s name?

LM: Hm? Trey.

O2: Trey, and he came to the house by himself, or with some other people?

LM: With his, he walked half way. His momma dropped him off.

O2: Okay.

LM: That’s the boy my brother’s playing ball with.

O2: Okay. And his sister was with him, you said?

LM: Who?

O2: Somebody was with him?

LM: His momma.

O2: His momma and that’s it.

LM: And his sister but they had dropped him off to go get something to eat and then they came over to our house.

O2: And what’s his sister’s name?

LM: Katura.

O2: Katura? So they dropped Trey and Katura off...

LM: No. Dropped Trey.

O2: And Trey, and Katura went with...

LM: Her momma.

O2: Her momma, okay. So you went out outside with Trey to play.

LM: Yeh, we we’re outside playing and stuff.

O2: Where exactly?

LM: In the back and in front.

O2: Okay, just around the house.

LM: Yes.

O2: And who else was outside?

LM: My, Cleo, Jason and Trey, and, um, I think that’s it.

O2: Okay.

LM: I think Trenton and Tyler, too.

O2: Did you do any cooking that day?

LM: I don’t cook.

O2: You don’t cook. Who does the cooking?

LM: Shawntay or Cleo or my grandma or my grandpa.

O2: Okay. What do you do at the house? Do you clean? Do you have chores?

LM: Uh, huh. [Positive.]

O2: Well, what is it that you have to do?

LM: One week, I have to clean the kitchen for a whole week, then the next week I have to clean the rest of house. Me and my sister take turns.

O2: So one week you have to clean the kitchen and the next week, you have to clean the rest of the house? When you clean the kitchen, is it just yourself?

LM: It’s my sister turn to clean the whole house, and then on Sunday, we turn it over, it’s her turn to do the kitchen and me do the rest of the house.

O2: Oh, okay. Well, which do you prefer to do?

LM: The kitchen.

O2: Why?

LM: You don’t have to move around.

O2: Its easier, huh? Is it a lot of work to do, to cleaning the house?

LM: Uh, uh. [Negative.]

O2: What all do you have to do...

LM: Sweep, sweep and clean the bathroom and clean the boys’ room, and wash.

O2: And wash. And that’s not a lot of work for you? It’s easy?

LM: I just like the kitchen better.

O2: How long does it take you to clean the kitchen?

LM: Probably five hours because I don’t like cleaning, not that much, I don’t like cleaning it that much, but I like the kitchen better than cleaning the house.

O2: And that’s because of...is this still running? Okay. And you like the kitchen better because its easier?

LM: Uh. Yeah, it’s better than the house.

O2: Okay. So, Friday, did you have to clean anything?

LM: Wash.

O2: You had to wash? What did you have to wash?

LM: Clothes.

O2: Whose clothes? Everybody’s clothing? Anything else? Just wash, and you played.

LM: Wash, I washed, swept the floor. Well, I didn’t sweep the floor until we came back from the hospital. The floor was swept. It was swept then I guess when they played in the house and got it dirty and had to sweep it.

O2: Hm, hm. Okay. Do you ever take care of the kids?

LM: Uh, uh. [Negative.]

O2: No?

LM: Not that much. I help a little bit. Most time I be cleaning up.

O2: Uh, huh. Whose responsibility is it to take care of the kids? Whose job is it to take care of the kids?

LM: Um, anybody.

O2: Like who?

LM: Um, Shawntay and my grandpa or my grandma.

O2: How about Cleo?

LM: Well, no. She helps.

O2: She helps? Do you help also?

LM: A little bit.

O2: But its really not your responsibility? Now is Cleo your sister? Are all the other kids in there, your sisters or brothers...?

LM: Tyler and Trenton are our foster brothers. Jason is our real brother. Shawntay’s my sister and Cleo’s my sister.

O2: Okay. Are there any cousins that live there with you?

LM: Uh, uh. [Negative.] Wait.

O2: Okay.

LM: Wait. There’s a little girl, her name is Zanya, we keep, uh, our cousin, her name is Sherry and she let us keep her, so I guess you could call her our sister or cousin.

O2: Lezania?

LM: Zanya. She lives over in that shelter with the little kids.

O2: Oh, okay. But she’s like your cousin?

LM: I think so.

O2: Okay. Okay. So, uh, let me ask you this. This, that afternoon, Friday afternoon, I want you to think back and we’re going to go over when Shawntay went to work. Do you remember that?

LM: Um, um. [Positive.]

O2: Do you remember what time that was?

LM: Probably 2:45.

O2: 2:45? Where were you at the time when she went to work?

LM: I think I was at the store, me and my sister walked to the store.

O2: You and Cleo?

LM: Yeah.

O2: And how long were you gone?

LM: I don’t know.

O2: Did you all go to the store before Shawntay went to work? Or afterwards?

LM: Before.

O2: Before. You all were gone already and when you came back, was Shawntay still there or had she gone to work.

LM: I think she was gone.

O2: She had already gone to work? Okay. And, how do you know what time she went to work?

LM: Hm?

O2: How did you know what time she went to work?

LM: Because she told, she has a schedule in her room.

O2: And she normally goes to work at that time?

LM: Uh, uh. [Negative.] She’s got different schedules and stuff, hours.

O2: So did you check the schedule that day, or how did you know?

LM: My grandpa told me. And I happen to know what time she goes to work.

O2: Okay. Did you ask your poppa or had he just told you?

LM: Hm?

O2: Did you ask him?

LM: No he was telling people at the hospital that I heard.

O2: Oh, okay. You overheard him say that. Okay. So you when you got back from the store, you and Cleo got back from the store, what did you do then?

LM: Eat.

O2: You ate? What did you eat?

LM: Meat. Wait. Meat and macaroni, meat and macaroni, yeh.

O2: And uh, who cooked it? The food.

LM: Shawntay.

O2: Shawntay? Before she went to work.

LM: Yes.

O2: Okay. So you set down to eat, and after you ate, what did you do?

LM: Just went in my granpa’s room looking at tv.

O2: Went to your room?

LM: His room.

O2: Okay, alright. Your daddy’s room. Okay and you watched tv, and what were you watching?

LM: Hm? Uh, we was watching Step-by-Step. It’s a show called Step-by-Step. We was watching cartoons first, then we was watching Step-by-Step.

O2: Step-by-Step. Who all was watching.

LM: Me and Cleo and Zanya. [Apparently the tape stops here]

O2: And where were the other kids?

LM: Jason was at practice. Jason was at practice, and Tyler and Trenton, I think they was outside playing.

O2: So when you were watching Step-by-Step, Jason had already gone to practice?

LM: Way before.

O2: Way before?

LM: Yeh, cause whenever my cousin left, that’s when he went to go practice.

O2: Okay, and then you watched tv? You watched Step-by-Step. And how long did you stay there watching tv.

LM: I dunno, I didn’t look at the time.

O2: Uh, huh. But do you have an idea?

LM: Huh?

O2: Do you have an idea, more or less how long you stayed there? Was it until the show was over, or did you

LM: Until the show was over.

O2: And then what happened?

LM: Huh?

O2: Did you go out to play, did you stay there and watch some more tv, or what did you do?

LM: That was when, we watched all of it, that was when Jayla, when I went to the bathroom and I was using the bathroom and I heard her crying. And I started to go get her.

O2: So after you watched Step-by-Step, you went to the bathroom?

LM: (Inaudible) I went to our bathroom, because you can’t use the bathroom in our, grandpa’s bathroom.

O2: You went into your bathroom? Which is the one in the hallway?

LM: Yes, across the hall.

O2: Hm, hm. And where was Cleo at the time?

LM: In my grandma, grandpa’s room. She was still in there.

O2: Cleo and uh,

LM: Zanya.

O2: Zania?

LM: Zanya.

O2: So you went into the bathroom and then what happened?

LM: I heard Jayla crying, she was shaking, and I went in there, picked her up and ran her to my grandpa, and asked him what was wrong with her. He told me to get a cold towel and put it on her face. Then. Told me. It wouldn’t work. He told me take her outside because she scared of dogs, and he might have thought she would wake up.

O2: Hm, hm.

LM: I took her outside. She didn’t wake up. Then this lady came. She told me to put her on the floor. She started like feeling on her like this, and stuff. And she told my grandpa to take her to the hospital because it don’t look like, she’s feeling so good. And there was traffic and stuff and then me and my grandpa ...

O2: Do you recall when you went to the bathroom, well let me tell you this. Did you know that we have talked to your daddy already, to R.L. and we’ve talked to all the other children in the house?

LM: Yes.

O2: Did you know that?

LM: You mean when me and my sister I came home?

O2: Well, that day, that night, and the following night and all through the weekend, and the past few days we’ve been talking to them.

LM: when they was at the shelter?

O2: Yes. We’ve been talking to all the children. And we’ve been talking to R.L. and he kinda told us what’s was going on. You know, he was telling us where you were at, where Cleo was at?

LM: Did he say she was in her room?

O2: No.

LM: Where she at?

O2: Uh, well, that’s what I’m here to ask you. Apparently, she was, everybody was either outside or some of the younger kids were in the house, but, the older kids, of course Jason was playing baseball and you know the only other people that were there was Cleo and you and uh, and he did say you went to the bathroom. He said you walked by him and went to the bathroom. You had been playing outside.

LM: Huh?

O2: Yeh, and you came in and went and used the bathroom and then you brought the baby out and said, or told him that the baby was breathing funny.

LM: Huh?

O2: You told R.L. that the baby was breathing funny.

LM: Well, acting funny, yeah.

O2: Yeh.

LM: I took him. I went to him and asked him what was wrong with her?

O2: Hm, hm. But do you recall something? Do you recall R.L. asking you what are you doing

LM: Where?

O2: When you were in the bedroom?

LM: In the bathroom?

O2: Yeh.

LM: I was in the bathroom.

O2: Yeh. He asked you...

LM: Right when I went in there and came, he said what are you doing there, cause I was in the bathroom.

O2: And what did he, and he asked you what are you doing back there and what did you tell him?

LM: Huh?

O2: What did you tell him?

LM: Using the bathroom.

O2: Do you recall saying anything else to him?

LM: Uh, uh.

O2: Do you recall saying that you were playing ball.

LM: Uh, uh.

O2: No?

LM: Hm.

O2: Would there be any reason why your grand or your daddy would say that?

LM: Hm. I was in the bathroom.

O2: Right. Do you understand also that you were the only person there, in the back room?

LM: Uh,huh. [Positive.]

O2: There’s nobody else there?

LM: No. My sister’s in grandpa’s room.

O2: Right, but in the back room you were the only one back there?

LM: In the bathroom, yeah, cause I had watched Step-by-Step and went outside (inaudible).

O2: The bathroom is like, it is grandpa’s room back here? Right?

LM: Where?

O2: Here. And uh, you have one room here, the boys’ room. Right? Where the bunk beds are?

LM: Yeh.

O2: And then here you have a bathroom, here? There’s one bedroom here? And there’s uh, Shawntay’s room here, right?

LM: The bathroom’s right there, right?

O2: Right. Right here.

LM: Oh.

O2: Right?

LM: Shawntay’s room is across from the bathroom.

O2: Right. Shawntay’s room is right here.

LM: I guess so.

O2: Yeah. So you say you were in grandpa’s room.

LM: Yes. I went to the bathroom

02: You went to the bathroom.

LM: Across the hall. Down the hall.

O2: Across the hall.

LM: Then I went and then she was acting funny, she was like breathing hard, I mean shaking and stuff. I ran to my grandpa and asked what was wrong with her.

O2: And what did your grandpa say?

LM: I put her in his arms and he started like trying to wake her up, and couldn’t wake her up. I got a towel and put it on her face and then I took her outside.

O2: Hm, hm.

LM: He told me to take her outside so she can get some fresh air. Then this lady came and started putting, checking her pulse and everything and then she said take her to the hospital cause it don’t look like she’s feeling so good.

O2: Uh, huh. Do you, according to your brothers and sisters, they said that you were outside playing at that time.

LM: When?

O2: Right at that time.

LM: When she was shaking and stuff?

O2: Well no, you saw the baby shaking.

LM: Yeh, cause I was in the bathroom...

O2: Right. But right before that, right before that time, right before you went to the bathroom you came in from the back.

LM: No, I wasn’t...

O2: and went to the bathroom.

LM: I was in my grandpa’s room with my sister.

O2: Okay. And your sister..

LM: Cleo.

O2: Can verify that?

LM: Yeh. Watching Step-by-Step with Zanya and Cleo?

O2: So, you know, we’ve talked to Cleo already.

LM: Hm, hm. She said I was outside.

O2: Yeh.

LM: I wasn’t outside.

O2: You weren’t outside.

LM: I was outside some time that day, but I was in the room when I heard, when I came out the bathroom, when I went into the bathroom.

O2: Hm, hm.

LM: I was outside like when I was looking at tv, I was outside after that, way after that.

O2: Way after what? After

LM: Huh?

O2: Way after what?

LM: When I was outside.

O2: When you were outside was when, what time?

LM: Uh.

O2: Was it after Step-by-Step?

LM: No.

O2: Before Step-by-Step?

LM: Wait. Let me see something. No wait. I was outside, when..see. I guess she was sick when she came into the house. My sister, she tried to feed her--not early in the morning in the evening, give her juice and stuff. She was giving her some juice. She’d hold that down, but if she tried to give her some food, she’ll throw it up.

O2: Okay.

LM: Everytime she’d do something, she kept throwing up all day yesterday, I mean Friday. Then my sister gave her some Tylenol..

O2: Uh, huh.

LM: Put her in the bed. Yeh, she put her in the bed. Then she put her in the bed, then me and my sister was in the living room. My poppa went to sleep, then me, Cleo and Zanya went into Grandpa’s room, looking at T.V.

02: Okay. So.

LM: He was sleep.

O2: He was asleep?

LM: Grandpa was asleep.

O2: Okay. So you’re watching Step-by-Step and when the show is over you went to the bathroom.

LM: Hm, hm. [Positive.]

O2: Okay and Cleo stayed in the bedroom?

LM: Yeh, her and Zanya.

O2: Oh, okay. Did Cleo ever go to the bathroom?

LM: Uh, uh. [Negative.]

O2: So from the time that the show started, Step-by-Step, you and Cleo were in that bedroom, and your grandpa was

LM: Sleeping.

O2: Sleeping in

LM: The living room.

O2: The living room, okay.

LM: He was asleep.

O2: So the only person that went to the bathroom was you?

LM: Yes.

O2: Okay. And Cleo did not go to the bathroom?

LM: She was looking at Step-by-Step, the commercials and stuff

O2: I wonder what time that show starts? Step-by-Step?

LM: I don’t know.

O2: Is it, do they show that everyday?

LM: Every Monday through Friday.

O2: On what channel?

LM: I think 7, I don’t know.

O2: Channel 7? Step-by-Step, I’m not too familiar with that show. Who are the characters in it?

LM: Hm?

O2: What is the show about?

LM: Just people.

O2: What kind of people? Young kids?

LM: Yeh.

O2: Or older kids? A family.

LM: Two parents. It’s a family. Two kids and um, [counting] the parents and five kids, five kids and then there’s one boy that just comes over just to play and stuff. Big Boy. He’s big.

O2: What are their names?

LM: Big Boy, I mean the big boy that just come over there and play, his name is Cody, then, J.T., then, forgot the rest

O2: And do you know the parents in this show?

LM: Uh, Frank, the daddy, and Carol, the momma, Carol, Carol, I mean Carol. Frank and ...

O2: Is she a blonde?

LM: Yeh.

O2: Okay. I think I know which show that is. Well that comes on every afternoon.

LM: Yeh.

O2: And that afternoon, you were watching show. And it’s about half-hour show, is that correct?

LM: Probably.

O2: Yeh. So. Let me ask you this, okay, Lacresha

LM: Hmm?

02: Right after the show you went to the bathroom?

LM: After it went off, yeah.

O2: Yeah. And your daddy says that he asked you what you were doing back there, and what did you tell him,

LM: Hmm?

02: What did you tell him? He asked you what you were doing back there because he heard some noises.

LM: Oh, I was in my room. Yeh, I was in my room. Where’s Shawntay room, again. Right here?

O2: Shawntay’s room is back here. You were in the bathroom, and Cleo was back here and your granddad was here, and right after the show...

LM: Our room is right behind

O2: Right after that show,

LM: I went to the bathroom

O2: You went to the bathroom, right when you were

LM: After the show

O2: Right there, your granddaddy heard some noises, coming from back here, see?

LM: Came back there where we were, in the back room?

O2: Yeh, and he asked you what you were doing, see? And, you told him something.

LM: Told him I was?

O2: You were playing something.

LM: Let me see.... Oh yeah, I told him I was playing ball, in my room.

O2: Are you sure that’s what you told him?

LM: Yes.

O2: Okay.

LM: My door was shut. I had this big old soccer ball...

O2: And your room is...

LM: Behind Shawntey’s.

O2: Across the hallway from Shawntay?

LM: Yeh, you can just turn the corner...

O2: Yeh, okay. And you had a soccer ball in there, and what were you doing with the soccer ball.

LM: Throwing it against the walls and stuff.

O2: Oh.

LM: But, we do that all the time.

O2: Are you supposed to do that?

LM: No.

O2: They don’t let you do that?

LM: Uh, uh. [Negative.]

O2: What happens when you do that?

LM: We get in trouble.

O2: What kind of trouble?

LM: Huh?

O2: What kind of trouble?

LM: Fussed at.

O2: What?

LM: Fussed at. Fussed.

O2: Oh, they fuss with you? And that’s all they do?

LM: Hm, hm. [Positive.]

O2: They don’t spank you? Or, restrict you?

LM: Restrict? What does that mean?

O2: That mean you can’t do things that you like...

LM: Oh.

O2: Like going out and playing.

LM: Sometimes, I get a whupping.

O2: Okay. Who does the whupping?

LM: Grandma.

O2: Grandma.

O2: But, she was in Georgia.

LM: For, we don’t know where she was.

O2: Do you know what happened to the baby?

LM: What happened?

O2: You don’t know what happened?

LM: Uh, uh. [Negative.]

O2: Well, the baby died.

LM: Uh, huh.

02: And it was some injuries that happened to her and the doctor said that those injuries happened at that time, and

LM: Yeh, but I didn’t do anything.

O2: Well, you have to understand that nobody else is back here. You see.

LM: Grandpa? Grandpa said that I did it?

O2: Well, you’re going to have, we’re going to have to talk about this. Okay. We’re going to have to talk about this, and

LM: Everybody was like going back and forth from the rooms and stuff.

O2: Uh, huh. Well, according to the story you told us before and according to the story you just told us, nobody was going back here and I asked you four times who else was going back here.

LM: Just me.

O2: Four times I asked you, and every time I asked you said just me.

LM: It was, I’m talking about...

O2: That’s what I’m talking about too. There was nobody else coming back here.

[Recording stops. (The interrogation continues unrecorded for an undetermined period, during which period it is obvious from the conversation begun after the tape resumes that the detectives had begun to make clear accusations of Lacresha having hurt Jayla)].

[Recorder resumes.]

O2: ...We’re here trying to help you, okay.

LM: [Inaudible]..help me if...is that what y’all trying to say?

O2: Well, you have to understand.

LM: Why would I want to hurt a child?

O2: I don’t know why anybody would want to hurt a child? But things happen. Things happen and we can’t control those things sometimes. But if we get to understand why these things happen, we can get solutions to those things, uh, if we keep it inside, we won’t be able to help, and that’s why we’re here to help. Okay. We’re here to help you, we’re here to help your daddy, we’re here to help your family, and we’re just here to help everyone, and if you keep things inside of you, that’s no good for you. You understand that?

LM: Yes.

O2: You don’t like what happens when you keep things inside of you, it just keeps building, and building and building and you can’t take it anymore.

LM: Huh.

LM: The best thing is to bring it out and talk about it.

LM: But I don’t have nothing inside me that I did.

O2: Pardon me?

LM: I don’t have nothing inside me that I did wrong. Or that bad.

O2: Uh, huh. But you understand what I’m saying, what I’m showing you here? You’re granddaddy is here. He saw you go to the bathroom...

LM: Hm. He saw me go through the hall from his room, I guess.

O2: And you went to the bathroom, you say? Right? Cleo was back here.

LM: Hm, hm. [Positive.]

O2: Okay, and nobody else came back here.

LM: I don’t know.

O2: And then. Well nobody came back here. Your daddy says that no-one came back here.

LM: Oh?

O2: He says no-one came back here. Cleo says no-one came back here, except you went to the bathroom.

LM: Hm, hm. [Positive.]

O2: You told me five times now that you were the only one that came back here, right?

LM: Yep.

O2: Now, we have a doctor who says those injuries on the baby were sustained at that time.

LM: Oh, but I didn’t do nothing.

O2: What? Well, that’s okay. We’re going to help you here. Okay. We’re going to go back over it, we’re going to go over and over it until it comes back into your mind. Oh, I know its really hard, but we need you to talk about it. We can’t hold it in.

LM: But I don’t have nothing that I did!

O2: Well, let me show you what I just showed you here. Lacresha, I know its hard, but look it, Cleo’s here, your daddy’s here

LM: Hm, hm

O2: And you told me five times that you’ve come down this hallway and we have a doctor...

LM: Came down the hall five times?

O2: No, you told me. I’ve asked you five times and you told me every single time that you were the only one that come down here. The baby is here and we have a doctor who says that the baby died at that time. Doctors can tell the exact time that this happened. Did you know that?

LM: Uh, uh. [Negative.]

O2: Yeh, they do that. That’s why they’ve studied so many years.

LM: Hm. Hm.

O2: So they can tell us these things.

LM: Hm. Hm.

O2: And he’s told us that at this particular time, this baby sustained these injuries.

LM: Hm. Hm.

O2: Okay, and I have you telling me that you came down here

LM: Hm. Hm.

O2: And you don’t deny that, and at the same time, R.L. says he heard some thumping noise..

LM: In my room.

O2: Yeh. And at the same time that the baby was sustaining those injuries, see and you’re saying that you were playing ball.

LM: Yes, I was.

O2: Well,

LM: And I can prove the soccer ball I was playing with. Its not here. Its in Austin, though.

O2: Where’s it at?

LM: In Austin.

O2: At your house?

LM: Its outside, probably, now.

O2: Yeh. because we went in to that room right there that afternoon...

LM: My room?

O2: Yeh. There wasn’t no soccer ball there.

LM: I know, he told me to take it outside...

O2: Yeh.

LM: The soccer ball’s probably outside.

O2: But that’s not what you told me. You told me that you came right out with the baby.

LM: No! I didn’t come right out with the baby. He told me, he said well you better take that ball outside

O2: Yeh, but you told me, you told me that when you came to the bathroom, you heard the baby breathing funny.

LM: Didn’t they say I came from outside, then went to the bathroom?

O2: No. I asked you if you came from outside and you said no you were in the bedroom.

LM: No. No.

O2: I’m not sure what story you want to tell me right now.

LM: I took the ball outside, then that’s when I went to the bathroom.

O2: So now you’re saying that you came out of the bedroom...

LM: Yes, with the ball...

O2: and that you started playing with the ball...

LM: No. I took the ball outside. I don’t know what they did with the ball or not.

O2: And then you went outside with the ball?

LM: Hm. Hm.

O2: Then you came back in.

LM: Yes.

O2: And you went to the bathroom?

LM: Yes. That’s what I told you, didn’t I?

O2: No, that’s not what you told me.

LM: Oh.

O2: That’s not even close to what you told me. See, you notice what the story’s changing a little bit.

LM: But that’s what happened.

O2: I’m sorry, but I’ve told you, I’ve asked you five times, Lacresha, and you told me the same thing. That you came down here to the bathroom from this room, okay, you never said anything about going outside with the ball. And I made it a point, I made sure that you, that I asked you the same question.

LM: So, y’all trying to say I did it? Huh?

O2: Well. What, look at all the evidence here. Cleo was here, said you went to the bathroom, your daddy is here, said you went to the bathroom, your daddy says he’s hearing thumping noises...

LM: Yes,...

O2: At the time when this doctor, with over 20 years of experience, is saying that baby died at this particular time.

LM: Yes.

O2: Okay.

LM: I didn’t do nothing. I promise to God.

O2: Lacresha, its okay. Listen.

LM: Y’all going to take me to jail or something.

O2: No. We’re not taking you to jail. We’re gonna take you back to your shelter. You can go back. We just want to get to the truth. Okay. Its all going to be okay. Alright? Its going to be okay. We’re going to take you back to the shelter. We just need to make sure we resolve this matter. Okay. We need to resolve it. And I want you to talk to us. Okay. I want you to talk to us.

LM: Uh, huh.

02: So we can get everything straight. Alright. So your daddy here, we won’t have to be bothering him any more.

LM: Uh, huh.

02: We won’t have to be bothering your mom or the other family members.

LM: Uh, huh.

02: Once we get the story straight [loud beeping sound], its over. Okay.

LM: Yep. But I didn’t do anything.

O2: Pardon me?

LM: I didn’t do nothing.

O2: Well, can you see

LM: My sister

02: Can you see? Your sister what?

LM: My sister said the baby was sick.

O2: Well, the baby might have had a little fever, you know, but the baby didn’t die from that. Do you know what the baby died of?

LM: Uh uh.

O2: You don’t?

LM: No.

O2: The baby had a lot of injuries on her. And, those injuries happened at that particular time. And we’ve talked to everybody in your family already and we’ve cleared everybody, okay.

LM: Uh, huh (positive).

02: And there’s nobody left except you and you’re the one that tells me that you came through the bathroom. I asked you five times and you told me the same thing.

LM: Yep.

O2: And then R.L. says he heard some thumping noise when you went to the bathroom.

LM: Hmm, hmm.

O2: And I have a medical doctor who says that that baby sustained those injuries at that time, you see, so you understand where we’re coming from.

LM: Hmm, hmm.

O2: Okay. Let me have that so you won’t cut yourself, cut your lip. Uh, now, and then you tell me a story that you went outside with the ball.

LM: Yep, but I didn’t do anything.

O2: I know, Lisa. I know its real hard, Lacresha. Its hard when something like this happens, but you know there’s a reason, there might be a reason why this happened, you know, you might have been carrying the baby and the baby might’ve fallen from your arms, or fell off of the bed, or something like this, and there’s a lot of reasons why something happened, but until we hear it from you, we won’t know. We’ll just have our opinion.

LM: You have ours too.

O2: Right. And we need to get your side of the story also.

LM: I just told you.

O2: Yeh, but you’re telling me some of it. You’re not telling me all of it.

LM: Yes, I am.

O2: You know, there’s more to it.

LM: Uh, uh [negative]

O2: I’m gonna tell you why, okay. Cleo says you were coming down here to the bathroom, R.L. says you’re coming down to the bathroom at the same time. R.L. heard some thumping noise.

LM: At that time?

O2: Yes, and I have a doctor who says those injuries happened at that time.

LM: Uh, huh.

02: Nobody else came this side of the house. No-one.

LM: Uh, huh.

02: You see, you know where it leads us to? To you. And like I was explaining to you, there are reasons why the baby sustained those injuries. There’s always an explanation to everything, you understand, and you know, the baby wasn’t just laying in bed and then all of a sudden sustained an injury. It might have rolled off the bed or. . .

LM: don’t know...

O2: Or you might have had him in your arms and then slipped from your arms and it might have fallen. There are things like that, and that’s understandable. We can understand all that, but we need to hear that explanation from you.

LM: Well, I don’t have no explanation. I told you all I know.

O2: Well you know, we’re not going to go away, because R.L. says one thing, Cleo says another thing and there’s nobody else back here , except you ...

LM: Uh, huh.

LM: When that thumping noise and then we have Jayla. How was Jayla? Did you like Jayla? Was she a good kid?

LM: She was a nice baby. She listen to everything you say if she doing something bad, if she doing something bad, see I can’t do anything to her, I go tell my sister, or my grandpa or somebody. And they tell her to go sit down and she just go on in there and sit down or go play.

O2: Did you ever have to discipline her?

LM: Not me.

O2: No. Who did?

LM: Nobody.

O2: Nobody ever disciplined her?

LM: None that we know, not in our house . . . probably at her home, but not here.

O2: Okay.

LM: You see my momma babysits her.

O2: Right. Going back to Jayla, you understand Jayla’s sleeping here in the bed.

LM: Shawntay’s room, yeah, but she wasn’t feeling good, my sister took her, gave her a Tylenol and took her back to the bath, no I mean to her room.

O2: Did you know that she didn’t die from that fever. She died from real heavy blows to her body, did you know that?

LM: No.

O2: No?

LM: All I know is that she died, that’s it. I knew about the high fever. They told us.

O2: How come you were shaking your head?

LM: What?

O2: How come you were shaking your head, you’re nodding.

LM: Hm?

O2: You were going like this, when I was.

LM: Oh, you was talking about stuff. I didn’t know that she had major things

O2: Yeah. When I asked you did you know that she had some major injuries, and you were going like this.

LM: Oh, no I didn’t.

O2: Okay.

LM: I was just going like that cause you were talking about something else, I mean. . .

O2: You see, we can’t, notice that we can’t get away from this because you have Cleo, your sister, they have R.L. here, your daddy, and they’re saying that ...

LM: I went to the bathroom.

O2: Yeh, that you went to the bathroom. Yeh, well that’s the same time that the baby sustained those injuries.

LM: I did go to the bathroom, you can ask my sister. My poppa say what’s that thumping noise back there? He said it loud. My sister came out of the room, my grandpa’s room, and she see me come out the bathroom. You can ask her.

02: Well, I thought you were in your bedroom, playing ball.

LM: I did.

02: But you just told me you came out of the bathroom.

LM: I did come out of the bathroom!

02: Were you in the bedroom or in the bathroom? Which one?

LM: Both.

O2: You can’t be in both at the same time. Lacresha, but you can’t be in both rooms.

LM: but I. . .

O2: at the same time,

LM: but I wasn’t. . .

O2: You can’t be in the bathroom and you can’t be in the in the bedroom playing ball.

LM: I didn’t say I was in them at the same time.

O2: Well, you said that R.L. asked you what’s that thumping noise?

LM: And my sister . . and my sister went . . .

O2: And your sister came out . . .

LM: when my grandpa

O2: and saw you coming out of the bathroom.

LM: Yes.

O2: But, you had told me earlier that you were playing ball in your bedroom.

LM: I was, yes, I was.

O2: But, you just told me that R.L. asked you what’s that thumping noise? and

LM: Yes, and. . .

O2: you came out of the bathroom.

LM: Yes, that was before I went to the bathroom.

O2: That was before you went to the bathroom?

LM: Before I went the bathroom. That was before like I was chucking the ball, throwing the ball against the wall because I do that all the time, me and my sister.

O2: Hm, hm.

LM: But, my sister wasn’t in there that time.

O2: Right.

LM: Then I went to the bathroom, came out.

O2: It still doesn’t change the fact that you were the only person back there.

LM: I don’t know. I know, but I don’t know if she fell out the bed or did anything.

O2: Well, that’s what we’re trying to find out, see. And we need your help because you were the only person back here, see? ... Until you tell me what happened, we’re going to think the worst. Do you know what I’m saying?

LM: But I don’t know what happened!

O2: We don’t want to think that way.

LM: Nobody in our family knows what happened.

O2: No, they do.

LM: Oh? Well, I don’t.

O2: Well, you are the only one that doesn’t, but everybody else does and they’ve talked to us already.

LM: Uh, huh.

02: They’ve given us statements, they told us exactly what happened.

LM: Yeh, but I don’t know what happened.

O2: You understand that you’re the only person back here, and the baby is here. What do think people are going to think?

LM: I did it. But I didn’t.

O2: Don’t you think? What would you think?

LM: I guess they’ll think I did it.

O2: You would think the same, huh? You know, and people do that all the time. They jump to conclusions, when they really don’t have all the facts, right? And that’s our job here is to get all the facts. I don’t want to jump to conclusions here. I need to find out from you the facts, so when your daddy asks me or Cleo asks me, or other people ask me, I can tell them well this is what happened, you see. I’ll know the truth, and the only person that can do that..

LM: Is me?

O2: Yeh, but nobody else, you know. You might have to, the baby might have been sick and you had him in the arms, or whatever, you might have dropped the baby, uh, and that’s perfectly understandable. That happens all the time. I don’t know what happened, you see? And you know, people are thinking the worst. You’re the only person that can clear those things up, and nobody else. Everybody else is going to assume the worst and they’ll be thinking the worst about you, but when you talk to me and tell me the truth, then I can explain things to people. You know what I’m saying? And that’s what I want to do, that’s why I want to help you and I want to help your family. I want to help your family. But you know, it’s up to you, when you explain things, then I’ll be able to explain to others, okay, because people are thinking the worst--they’re saying this happened, that happened, you know how people start talking, and you know how that goes. A lot of times, its just a rumor, you know, and I don’t want to think that about you. I don’t want people to think bad about you, or your family, but something did happen and I need for you to explain it to us, that way we can clear things up for everybody, need to clear things up for you. I don’t want people thinking bad about you, you see what I’m saying? Things happen. Things happen, we make mistakes. I make mistakes all the time, you know. But I don’t try to hide them, I try to correct them, and then go on from there; and you’re a young girl, you still have your whole life ahead of you, and we can correct things, you know we can start anew from here. Doesn’t mean this is the end of your life, its just a beginning for you, because we can correct things. You know what I’m saying? Lacresha?

LM: Hmm, hmm. Yes.

O2: So what I want is for you start talking about, you know, what could have caused this, what happened at that point so I can explain it.

LM: When I was, at what point?

O2: When you went back here and when you picked up the baby. . .

LM: Oh, when I was picking her up and I was coming to take her to grandpa. She did fall, a little bit. She fell, her head hit the floor, her body hit the floor and then I picked her up and run to my grandpa.

O2: How did she fall?

LM: I was holding her like this. I was trying to run, I was trying to run and I tripped over this thing that was on my sister’s floor and my hands just separated and she fell.

O2: Uh. Okay. Was that in...?

LM: Shawntay’s room.

O2: In Shawntay’s room?

LM: She don’t have no carpet. She’s got a regular floor.

O2: Oh really?

LM: Because my grandma took it up.

O2: Oh, okay. So you heard the baby breathing hard, or something?

LM: No, well. She was shaking.

O2: She was shaking?

LM: Yeah, And I was trying to run and my sister had something on the floor and my hands just separated and she fell.

O2: Oh, now you see that, that’s understandable. So when your hands slipped?

LM: She just fell.

O2: She just fell and how did the baby land?

LM: Hm?

O2: How did the baby land on the floor?

LM: She landed, she landed on her, uh, back.

O2: On her back?

LM: Yes.

O2: What portion of the body?

LM: Hm?

O2: What portion of the body?

LM: Portion?

O2: I mean, let me show, let me draw a picture here and you tell me how the baby fell. Let me see if I can draw here, probably can’t draw too good. When the baby fell, what part of the body hit the floor.

LM: First?

O2: Yeh.

LM: Her head, I think her head.

O2: What part? The front, or the back or the side?

LM: ..the back.

O2: The back.

LM: Then her back, right here, back hit the floor hard, but I wasn’t trying to do that.

O2: So the back of the head, then the lower back hit the floor?

LM: Yeh.

O2: Okay, and then what else happened?

LM: Then I picked her up and ran to my grandpa.

O2: Okay. You see, now that’s, that’s good, Lacresha. You see, now we can explain some of the injuries. If somebody asked me I could say well, you know this is what happened, she picked up the baby and then her hands slipped and the baby fell and hurt the back of the head, hurt the

LM: back.

O2: Lower back and that’s good. I can explain that. But, and there’s a few more injuries on her.

LM: How can you . . .

O2: Can you tell me about those?

LM: Where they at?

O2: Well, they’re inside the body. There was such uh, the force was so great, that there had to be some force applied to the baby. You know what I’m saying? In other words, the injuries were so, the impact was so hard that caused internal injuries.

LM: That was the only time she fell, when I had her. That’s the only time.

O2: Uh huh.

LM: That I know when I had her, that’s when she fell. Then I picked her up and took her to my grandpa.

O2: Okay. Did you, uh, kick her at any time?

LM: Huh?

O2: Did you kick her at any time?

LM: Kick her?

O2: Yes.

LM: What do you mean kick her? Like when I was trying to get her or something?

O2: Maybe, like maybe step on her or kick her or something like that.

LM: Like when I was trying to pick her up or something?

O2: I don’t know. That’s what I want you to explain.

LM: Probably?

O2: How, can you explain to me that? That part? Can you explain it?

LM: What do you mean?

O2: You said you probably did kick her. But can you explain it, how did that happen?

LM: Don’t know, but maybe.. I was trying to run back and pick her up, probably I was trying like, my feet probably kicked against her side or something.

O2: Oh, okay. Do you remember which side? Which foot?

LM: What? I think that side.

O2: On the left side? Oh, okay.

LM: Probably that side.

O2: As you were trying to pick her up ... [long pause] Do you recall what foot kicked her on the left side? ...

LM: On my right.

O2: Your right foot?

LM: And she, yeah.

O2: I want you to understand that we’re not thinking bad about you at all, okay. And I want to thank you for starting to tell me these things. These are important.

LM: But I didn’t mean to drop her.

O2: Okay, we understand that. And, uh. . .

O3: Lacresha, were you wearing shoes?

LM: Hm, hm [positive]

O3: Do you remember which shoes you were wearing?

LM: Which ones I were wearing? Probably these I got on.

O3: Okay.

O2: What are they? A six...

O3: ASICS? Tennis shoes?

LM: Yes.

O3: Okay.

O2: And there were a few other injuries on her, can you tell me about those?

LM: Where?

O2: Right here on, well on the body, on the shoulder, on the arms.

LM: Uh, uh. (negative)

O2: Did you accidentally pick up something and maybe struck the baby with an instrument.

LM: I don’t have no instrument.

O3: Could something have fallen on the baby?

O2: Like a stick or rope or wire or hanger or belt, anything like that? I mean.

LM: Uh, uh. [negative.]

O2: There’s definitely an injury there that was caused by. something.

LM: Right here?

O2: That was caused by something other than a shoe or a hand, had to be something, something else.

LM: Probably I was holding her in a different way, or something--holding her like a, like a baby, like this. Probably her arm was hanging off from my thing over my thing.. I was going and it probably hit the wall or something.

O2: Hit the wall?

LM: Like this, like this. It swinged to hit the wall. Back like this, I guess. I don’t know. Her head was on my, I think her head was on my shoulder and I hit her arm and her arm, her hand, was hanging out like this.

O2: Uh, huh. And the arms might have hit the wall, you said, but what about up here on the shoulder, like right here?

LM: Right where?

O2: Right here. Do you recall, uh... I want you to take your time and just think at that moment. Do you recall picking up anything that might have caused an injury right here? Take your time. You don’t recall using a belt?

LM: For what?

O2: To maybe to discipline the baby,

LM: I don’t hit kids.

O2: And left an injury there.

LM: I don’t hit kids. I mean like whup nobody. I am too young. because sometimes I need whupping myself.

O2: Right. There was definitely an injury right here that was left by something, either a stick, or a rod, or a belt, something like that, and that was also was caused at that time.

LM: Probably something I did, but I don’t know what happened.

O2: That’s why I’m asking you to just take your time and think about particular point in time and see if you can remember what it was.

LM: I don’t know.

O2: Now you keep on thinking. It’s alright. You take your time. There was a distinctive mark here on the shoulder.

LM: A mark?

O2: Yeh, like a red, red mark and that was caused by something. That wasn’t caused by a fall or a...

LM: Just like the head?

O2: Yeh, and that injury also happened at that time. And whatever it is, whatever it was, you know, it’s okay, you can tell me, you know ...

[The recorder is turned off here. On the State’s copy, presented in open court to the jury, they simply provided them with 3 separate tapes of the Interrogation, even though sometimes only one half of a tape was used on only one side, minimizing the obvious - that the recorder is being turned on and off - and that the conversation (unmonitored) continues while the recorder is turned off. Significantly, at this juncture, it is apparent while the recorder was off, they tried to convince her to say that she picked up something and struck the baby].

[Tape resumes].

O2: [Inaudible], you know, with something.

LM: I can’t remember anything.

O2: Was there anything inside Shawntay’s room that you might have picked up? Anything, anything that would have caused a blow or injury right here?

LM: She has a whole bunch of things in her room.

O2: Like what?

LM: She had a whole bunch of shoes, she had a belt in her closet and stuff.

O2: Do you remember picking one of those items up and you striking the baby right here on the shoulder?

LM: Why?

O2: Because it left a mark here, it left a mark.

LM: Uh, uh. No. We’re not allowed to touch nothing in her room. If I do, we’ll get in trouble.

O2: Okay.

LM: By her. Then she’ll get mad.

O2: She gets mad? Okay. So basically what you’re saying is that you had the baby in your arms and then it slipped out of your hands and

LM: Yeh, it tripped or something .

O2: the baby fell on its head. . .

LM: on the bed.

O2: Yeh, and then

LM: She fell, I tripped on something on the floor...she fell on the floor.

O2: It fell on the floor. And then what happened?

LM: And then I guess when I was trying to pick her up, probably kicked her in her side--but I wasn’t trying to, I was, was just trying to pick her up--and that’s when I went to my grandpa, picked her up and took her to my grandpa.

O2: Okay.

LM: That’s what I was trying to do in the first place.

O2: When, uh, let me ask you this -- when you kicked her , how hard did you kick her?

LM: Wait. Probably hard, but I wasn’t trying to.

O2: Hard, but you weren’t trying to? Okay.

LM: I wasn’t even trying to drop her.

O2: Okay. I want you to show me -- [Talking to other officer or attendant] See if we have something we can kick around ...

FEMALE OFFICER (FO): Do you want me to get someone or [inaudible] ...?

O2: Oh, okay. Yeh, thanks.

[Door closes].

O3: Lakeesha, do you remember where you kicked, where the, where she was kicked at?

LM: In the side, left, right, left side.

O3: On the left side.

O3: Yeh, in the left side. Right here.

LM: I think probably on that side?

O3: When the baby landed on the floor, was she face down or on her back?

LM: Like this, back.

O3: Back.

LM: Yeh, on the back..her head and then her back.

[Door opens.]

FO: Like this? [Inaudible]

O2: Hm, okay. Yeh.

FO: [Inaudible]

O2: [To FO] No, that’s fine. Yeh, it’s kind of light.

FO: [Inaudible]

 

O2: [To FO] Okay.

[Door closes.]

O2: Right around here, there’s an injury right here on the, like a bruise, a little noticeable.

LM: I can’t think of anything.

O2: You went like that or something. And I know there’s a lot of things in there.

LM: Lot of things in where?

O2: In the room

LM: Uh, huh

02: Yeah. Can you think of anything that you might have picked up? Maybe [The officer picks up something and makes a loud, sharp striking sound against something hard.] and did that...

[Door opens.]

FO: [Inaudible]

O2: [to FO] Oh, yeah. Okay that’s definitely. Why don’t you step up here and just kind of show me how, like how you kicked her.

LM: How I kicked her?

O2: Yeah, just go ahead, um, do it the way you did it and

LM: I don’t even know how I did it.

O2: How you think you did it.

[They’ve moved away from recorder, so it’s difficult to hear, particularly Lacresha.]

LM: [Inaudible]

O2: Okay. Now how many times was it? Just one time?

LM: [Inaudible.]

O2: So, it was with your right foot?

LM: Yes.

O2: So you went

[At this point, the officer demonstrates for Lacresha - he kicks the object they have brought in, using a particular force and she duplicates that kick for him. They are showing her how to do it, they are demonstrating the amount of force they want applied. They are prompting her what to say.] like that?

LM: Yeah.

O2: Let’s see. Do that again? Okay. How far did she move when you kicked her?

LM: Only her head.

O2: Only her head moved?

LM: No, here.

O2: Oh, her left side moved? Oh, Okay. Thanks. Do you, Lacresha, do you, uh, trust me? You know, what I was telling you.

LM: What?

O2: Do you believe that what I was telling you was true, that when you asked me earlier that if you were going to go to the shelter and I told you yes you were. You know, you are going back to the shelter, okay so I want you to understand that, that you know I’m telling you the truth and that I thank you for telling me the truth. There’s still a few more questions I need to ask you and we need to get into that too. I mean I want you to also tell me the truth on the questions I’m going to ask you, okay? Alright. I still have to ask you about that one injury but I want you to think, I know its hard, but it might take you a little bit, but just think and I know it will come back to you. You just have to kinda think over the same that Friday afternoon.

LM: I don’t remember hitting her or anything.

O2: You don’t remember hitting her?

LM: I don’t even...

O2: Remember kicking her and you remember dropping her.

LM: Yeah.

O2: Well, let me ask you this, why don’t you show me how you dropped the baby.

LM: Just drop it?

02: No, how you did it, how that happened.

LM: How, [Inaudible.]

O2: Because when the baby was dropped and the injuries were kinda heavy and the doctor said it had to be with kinda some force, uh, to it.

LM: [Inaudible.] Running ... room. [Inaudible.]

O2: Okay. Why don’t you start from over there. You can show me what you did with the baby. The whole thing. You dropped it and then you kicked it.

LM: I wasn’t...

O2: Or did you kick it first, then drop it?

LM: No.

O2: It was the other way around?

LM: [Lacresha’s voice inaudible over noises.. Loud sound]

O2: Earlier, you showed me that you went like this.

LM: Yes. [loud sound]. [Inaudible.] No like this.

O2: Oh, okay. Then

O3: Lakeesha, on that last thing, when you showed that up, I saw, it looked like you fell down. Did you fall down?

LM: No. I just accidentally did that.

O3: Okay.

O2: What I want to do. Go ahead with any questions you want, just jump right in.

LM: Okay.

O2: I going to set up the computer. I’m going to take a statement. Okay. Of just what you told me, okay?

LM: A statement?

O2: Yeh, it’s basically what you told me.

LM: Put me on video again?

 

O2: No. No. No videos. Just gonna put it on paper, that’s it.

LM: Paper. [whispered.]

O3: You wanna do the typing?

O2: Uh, yeh.

O3: You’re pretty good at that.

O2: Pretty good?

O3: No, you’re pretty good at that.

O2: You do? really?

O3: Do you know what that is?

LM: It’s a typewriter?

O3: Kind of, it’s a little computer, a little laptop.

LM: My sister’s got one of those. She got a typewriter, not one of those.

O3: She’s got one of these.

LM: No, she’s got a typewriter.

O3: Oh.

[Door opens. People enter. ]

O3: Hi.

LM: Who’s that.

FEMALE: Is the temperature alright in here? Is it too cool? Or,

MALE: Hi. How you doing Lacresha?

 

FEMALE: How you doing Lacresha?

LM: Fine.

FEMALE: Are you cool or comfortable?

LM: Comfortable.

FEMALE: You’re comfortable, okay.

MALE: Are you cold? Okay.

FEMALE: Well, it’s right here on the wall, if that would be helpful.

[Door closes.]

[There’s a mix of voices. Inaudible.]

(O4): I’m going to ask you a few more questions, like I said, we’re trying to cover a lot of stuff here and you did real good talking to us and we do appreciate it. I know that Jayla had been sick and I just got bits and pieces of it because I haven’t heard the whole thing. But she’d been sick that day?

LM: I guess she was.

O4: Yeh, and what was she doing when she was sick?

LM: She was throwing up.

O4: She was throwing up? A lot of throwing up?

LM: Every time my sister tried to feed her, she’d just throw up.

O4: Well, where was she throwing up at?

LM: She threw up, I don’t know. I know she threw up in my sister’s bed. That’s one place she throwed up at, but my sister said she kept throwing up.

O4: In Shawntay’s bed?

LM: Yeh. Shawntey’s bed. She...

O4: Did she, how many times did she throw up that you know of?

LM: Only one time I know, but she, my sister said she kept throwing up. My grandpa said that too.

O4: Oh, but you know she throwed up in Shawntay’s bed. Did Shawntay have to pick that up? Or...

LM: It wasn’t no sheet on her bed because she had to wash her sheets, but wasn’t nothing on the bed, just a mattress.

O4: Oh, there were no sheets? She just had to clean it up or whatever?

LM: She had the throw up on her clothes and on her hair.

O4: Did somebody clean that all up?

LM: Huh?

O4: Did somebody clean that up?

LM: Throw-up, up?

O4: Yeh, whatever mess was on her?

LM: Oh no. Right then? Because we took her to the hospital, or something. I guess they cleaned her up at the hospital

O4: So there was some mess on her right before she was taken to the hospital. There was something...

LM: Yeah, in her hair..

O4: Did you see that when you went in the room?

LM: What room? Shawntey’s room?

O3: Yeh, did you see some mess on her, throw-up look like? What do you think? She just threw up and got it on her?

LM: I guess so, and, or laid in it.

O4: Was it pretty messy . . .yeh. That was the only time you knew she threw up? Or she threw up earlier than that?

LM: She threw up when she was eating, too.

O4: Okay. Who had to clean all that up?

LM: Shawntay.

O4: Okay. All we asked because I remember you talking about cleaning. I didn’t know who got the cleaning chores. Was it..that was your week for the house.

LM: Yep.

O4: And...

LM: Well Shawntay did it because I wasn’t feeding her. She can eat by herself, but she wouldn’t and my sister tried to give her something to eat.

O4: Yeh, okay, so...

O2: How old are you?

LM: Eleven.

O2: And your date of birth is?

LM: June 23, 1984...

O4: [Inaudible]

LM: I hurt my hand awhile ago, when I was doing that, I fell on the floor.

O4: Oh.

O2: Oh. Do you have, what’s your address?

LM: 9709 Hanson Drive. I have to look at the keys to type. I don’t know how to do just like this.

O4: Hm, hm.

O2: And your phone number is?

LM: 834-7807.

O2: 7807?

LM: Yeh. Don’t you know it? We gave it to you.

O2: Uh no, I’ve got in my notes, but I don’t want to go through it. I figure you can you tell it. It’s easier. Do you work?

LM: No. At home.

O2: [Laugh]

O2: Let’s see.

LM: You cold?

[Door opens or closes.]

LM: [Inaudible] by me.

O4: That, he is.

LM: Who was that?

O4: You remember him?

LM: No.

O4: That’s Detective Gilcrest. Mark.

O2: Do you know Jayla’s last name?

LM: Shaw. S-h-a-w.

[Sounds of things moving.]

O2: You want to see? [inaudible] chair... Can you read pretty good?

LM: No, but I try.

O2: Yeh, [inaudible.] You’ve got to look at it straight on.

[Door opens or closes.]

O2: My name is Lacresha Murray.

LM: I’m down there.

O2: Huh?

LM: Down there.

02: Did I miss something?

LM: No.

O2: Oh. Oh you’re down here already?

LM: Hm, hm.

O2: Okay.

LM: What’s that word? Home-a-seed?

O2: Yeh, we work in there, homicide.

LM: Homicide?

O2: There you go.

LM: What’s that? [Silence]

O2: Understand it?

LM: Is that how you spell her name?

O2: Jayla? Yeh, J-a-y-l-a. Alright. why don’t you turn it around so I can read, then I’ll turn it back so you can read it.

LM: What are you fixing to write? Here.

O2: Just what you told me.

LM: [Inaudible]

O2: Yeh. We’re just going to go over it again.

LM: You put it on there so you won’t have to keep asking me questions.

O2: There you go.

LM: But they put it on that video too, a couple of days. I definitely would have remembered that

O2: Oh and yeah, but, like I said, when I came here..

LM: [Inaudible] ... questions.

O2: Yeh, there were some things that were not in there. You know, like you were telling us.

LM: You seen that video?

O2: You look good.

LM: Hm.

O2: You know who’s funny, is Trenton, your brother.

LM: Y’all bring him here?

O2: Naw, we talked to him, but he’s funny. Five years old? You like him.

LM: Hm, hm. [positive]. He fights with me.

O2: Fights with you? Who else fights with you?

LM: Jason.

O2: Jason?

LM: Jason. My grandpa.

O2: How’s your grandpa fight with you?

LM: Like he tickles me and throws me on the ground or something. Me and Shawntay.

O2: Play fighting?

LM: Yeh.

O2: Oh, okay.

LM: With Shawntay. Some times...but Trenton, he’s spoiled.

O2: He is?

LM: He hit us, we hit him back, [inaudible]..

O2: I wonder why that is. How come he’s spoiled?

LM: I guess because he’s pretty.

O2: He’s a handsome boy, huh?

LM: Yeah. We went to go see him. Yesterday, Tyler got to come over there, but the day before that, we got to go see him.

O2: Oh really.

LM: Monday, went to go see them.

O2: Uh, huh. Tuesday?

LM: Tuesday, we went to go see him, I don’t know.

O2: Let me see, where do we start here? What, Friday, okay.

LM: Is that Jayla and Jasmine.

O2: That’s Jayla and Jasmine, yeh.

LM: Oh.

O2: Let me look at the notes here for a second. You don’t remember what time you woke up Friday, do you?

LM: Oh, I never look at the time when I wake up, only for school days.

02: But when you woke up, you went to watch some T.V. and

LM: Yeah

02: My grandpa woke us cause my grandpa. It was Carmen San Diego, which is a show, a cartoon. My grandpa had to go to church to see about this man about the church and stuff, early that morning. When I woke up I looked in the den and she was playing with her sister, wrestling and stuff.

O2: Tell me again that, the name of the show.

LM: Carmen.

O2: Carmen San Diego.

LM: Did you play that with me?

O2: No, I don’t remember it. Carmen San Diego.

O2: I got it, its a cartoon, right?

LM: Uh, huh. You know that cartoon?

O2: No, I have never seen it before. What is it about?

LM: Its about Carmen, she escapes and stuff. She escapes. You’ve seen Carmen San Diego, the show?

O2: No, I’ve never seen it, but she escapes from what?

LM: Jail.

O2: And people are looking for her?

LM: These two kids.

O2: Two kids and what, they want to put her back in jail?

LM: In the show, Carmen San Diego, they’re looking for her. Its about questions, you have to answer questions and stuff.

O2: Okay, and they show that every Friday or every day?

LM: Every day, all the way through Friday. I think Carmen San Diego comes on. Did I say it comes on Monday through Friday?

O2: Yes.

LM: Oh, it comes only on Saturday.

O2: Well, then you couldn’t have been watching Carmen San Diego.

LM: I mean Friday, I don’t know.

O2: I thought it was just Saturday morning. Okay.

LM: Probably yeah, it comes on. I don’t know when it comes on, Friday or Saturday.

O2: Okay, I think ..

LM: Right, it comes on Friday.

O2: Does it really?

LM: Yeah, yeah.

O2: Okay, are you sure?

LM: Yes, I think. Well let me see. Yeah, it comes on Friday.

O2: If you don’t remember, I just won’t put it in there. You know, I just, what I’m trying to understand is I’m going to be able to figure out the time you woke up by whatever you were watching.

LM: Let’s see I think I woke up at...

O2: Was your grandpa already gone?

LM: Yeah, because, well when he’d said he was leaving, I heard him and I looked out and said where you going, he said he was going to this church and he said the clothes better be washed, he told me to get up, but I went back to bed.

O2: Did he leave with Jason?

LM: No.

O2: He left by himself?

LM: Jason was in the den. He maybe fell asleep. He was in the den looking at t.v. with uh.. Shawntay let Jayla in.

O2: Okay.

LM: I had to wake up after ten o’clock because that’s when Jayla came, that when Shawntay said she came, like at ten o’clock.

O2: Uh huh.

LM: Probably be at, I’ll say eleven.

O2: Eleven.

LM: Tyler and Jason woke up early. Chuchu probably woke up at one or two o’clock. He sleeps late.

O2: And who else was there with you in the bedroom?

LM: I was in grandpa’s room.

O2: Yeah, in grandpa’s room.

LM: Cleo and Zania, we was eating, but we we’ren’t supposed to be eating.

O2: I won’t tell your grandpa.

LM: Huh?

O2: I won’t tell your grandpa.

LM: I think he knew because he had found a bowl in there when y’all had left that night.

O2: Oh, okay.

LM: But we didn’t say who it was. You copying all this?

O2: Uh huh, well some of it, yeah. Uh, and tell me about the time that your sister went to work. You said you were not there.

LM: Uh uhn. 2:45.

O2: 2:45.

LM: 2:45. I think it was 2:45. She was supposed to be there at three, I think, but she left at 2:45. She rides in the car because won’t nobody take her to work.

O2: You had gone to the store?

LM: Yep.

O2: Which store?

LM: Whistle Stop, me and Cleo.

O2: When you got back home Shawntay had already gone.

LM: When I got back home, Shawntay was gone.

O2: So what did you do when you got back home?

LM: Eat.

O2: And who else ate?

LM: No one. Just me and my grandpa and all the other kids had already ate.

O2: Just you and your grandpa ate?

LM: Right then.

O2: And you were in the kitchen?

LM: Uh, huh, no I was in, in his room.

O2: His room, you were eating in his room?

LM: I was in the living room and then he fell asleep. He told me to go back in the kitchen, but he fell asleep and I went in his room.

O2: Okay, where were the other kids?

LM: Huh. Tylor, Bookie and Erica was in the den.

O2: Tylor who?

LM: Boo. Trenton, we call him Boo, but his name is Trenton, and Erica.

O2: And Erica.

LM: Was in the den.

O2: And the other kids?

LM: That’s all.

O2: That’s it?

LM: Jasmine was like playing anywhere.

O2: Jasmine was playing somewhere in the house.

LM: Jason was gone.

O2: And where was Cleo at?

LM: Grandpa’s room.

O2: Okay, after you ate, what happened? Where’d you go?

LM: I was in Grandpa’s room.

O2: And who else was in the room?

LM: I told you that a whole lots of times.

O2: I know.

LM: Cleo and Zania.

O2: Since you’re young, you need to practice on your remembering things. When you get old like me you forget things. I know you told me a lot of times, but I keep forgetting.

LM: Oh.

O2: Oh, you have to bear with me okay? So Grandpa, Cleo, Grandpa, I’m sorry, you, Cleo and Zania.

LM: Zania

O2: Zania were in the bedroom watching T.V. and what were you watching?

LM: Step by Step.

O2: And you watch that every afternoon?

LM: Well, not every afternoon because I be working with my grandma here.

O2: But sometimes?

LM: Yeah.

O2: Now, when you were watching the T.V., the T.V. program, Step by Step, with Cleo and Zania.

LM: Zania.

O2: Zania, where was everybody else?

LM: Jason was gone.

O2: Where did he go?

LM: Baseball practice. He have a game today. At four o’clock. And Trenton, Erica, Tyler playing (inaudible) in Granpa’s room.

O2: Sorry, Trenton, Tylor, Erica and who?

LM: That’s all what was in the den playing.

O2: Was there anybody outside playing? Was everybody inside?

LM: No that I know of, because all the kids were in the house.

O2: Okay, so when the T.V. show Step by Step was over, what happened? You went to the bathroom?

LM: Uh huh.

[Tape stops].

[Tape resumes.]

O2: And Trenton, Tylor and Erica were in the den?

LM: Uh huh, playing.

O2: Grandpa was where?

LM: Asleep, or he was just sitting in the chair. I’ll say asleep.

O2: The chair in the living room?

LM: Yeah.

O2: And you say he was asleep?

LM: Uh, huh.

O2: Okay, did you go to the bathroom first or did you go to Shawntay’s room first?

LM: Bathroom. It’s on way there.

O2: After you went to the bathroom..

LM: Un huh, I went to Shawntay’s room.

O2: Okay, when you went into Shawntay’s room what happened?

LM: I picked her up.

O2: Okay, why did you pick up the baby?

LM: Huh? Because she was like shaking.

O2: Where was the baby? On the bed?

LM: Shawntay’s bed, yeah.

O2: Okay, let’s go over this one more time. You picked up, you picked her up because she was shaking. You picked her up in your arms?

LM: In her, yeah in my arms.

O2: Okay, I meant in your arms. Go, let’s go over everything again and I’m gonna type it in. Okay?

LM: I picked her up in my arms, and then there was something, there was something on the floor, something on the floor, then I was running, then I tripped over it.

O2: Okay.

LM: And dropped her.

O2: Okay, how did the baby land?

LM: On her back, arm, yeah on her back.

O2: You said she landed on the back of her head first?

LM: Yeah.

O2: And then on her lower back?

LM: Yep.

O2: You said Shawntay’s room does not have carpet?

LM: Nope, we took it up. We don’t have carpet either. We took our’s up too. Jason’s doesn’t either. The bathroom doesn’t, Grandpas room doesn’t (inaudible) carpet.

O2: After Jayla fell on the floor, what happened?

LM: Huh? What happened? I went to go pick her up and accidentally, I guess I accidentally kicked her in her side.

O2: You went to pick her up and you kicked her on the side?

LM: I picked her up and I tripped over something on Shawntay’s floor.

O2: Right, and then Jayla fell on the floor. Uh, after she fell on the floor, you, you kicked her? On the side?

LM: Yeah, she fell on the floor, trying to go pick her up and I was running back to go pick her up and kicked her, yeah.

O2: How many times did you kick her?

LM: Once.

O2: You kicked her on which side? Left side, you said.

LM: I said right, didn’t I say right?

O2: No, you said left side, here.

O3: Right here.

O2: As you’re looking at it, that’s the right side, but its like, like this, its this side.

LM: Yeah.

O2: That side, okay. How would you describe the kick, was it hard?

LM: I guess so.

O2: When you kicked the baby, what happened? What happened to the baby?

LM: Huh?

O2: What happened to her? What happened to Jayla when you kicked her?

LM: What?

O2: Did she move?

LM: Yeah.

O2: Her side.

LM: No, she moved

O2: How did she move?

LM: Wait. She, from right here, like from right here, it moved.

O2: The part you kicked?

LM: Yeah.

O2: Now, there’s..let me, let me ask you this. There’s a few more injuries on her, like right here on the forehead. Can you tell me how that happened?

LM: Uh uh. [Long pause.] Uh uh. [Negative.]

O3: Jayla, Lakeesha, Lacresha, when the baby dropped and hit the floor, how far were you behind the baby, when you kicked her, were you far away, did she fall a long way forward or did she fall right in front of you, or?

LM: She fall a long way forward.

O3: I’M trying to remember how you showed us and everything. How far do you think it was?

O2: Show us again, show us again with the..exactly how. Tell you what, why don’t you stand over there and come this way so you won’t trip on the cord.

LM: Do what?

O2: Just do, do exactly what happened.

O3: Okay, try and show us how far the baby went.

LM: Okay.

O2: Yeah.

LM: Well, I just dropped her.

O3: Okay, so she went straight down?

LM: Yeah. She went like, I was running and dropped her like that.

O3: Okay, so when she dropped you were pretty much right in front of her.

LM: Uh, huh.

O3: Okay, and show us how, how that kicked happened.

LM: I was trying (inaudible) right here and I was coming back to get her and I went like that (inaudible).

O2: And could you show me again the kick, the kick that, the force that you used.

LM: What? This again?

O2: No just put the baby down and just show me how you kicked her, how much force.

LM: (Sound) Like that.

O2: Okay. [Inaudible.]

O3: And you said it was one, one kick?

LM: Yeah. I’m finished?

O2: Uh, almost. Amost

O3: So, you were wearing those tennis shoes there, when you kicked her?

 

LM: Yeah.

O3: Okay, let me see, let me see the tip. Okay, what part of the shoe do you remember was the part that hit Jayla?

LM: Tip.

O2: Which part?

LM: Right here.

O3: Okay right on the front there, on the tip?

LM: Yeah.

O2: You want to read the whole thing. Sit down and just, you want to go down, it’s this way. There you go. Start right there.

[Recorder stops.]

[Recorder resumes.]

O2: You know what button to push? To scroll it down?

LM: Yeah.

O2: Okay, I’ll be right back.

LM: A lot happened.

VICTIMS

ADVOCATE (VA): You can start (inaudible).

LM: This is going to the same thing.

VA: It’s not moving? Which ones did he tell you to push?

LM: Here.

VA: Nope, see the bottom part moves, watch, see, when you push this button, it scoots it up a little bit, watch it, watch the bottom of the page, I’m gonna push the button, see

LM: Uh, huh.

VA: See, it scooted it up, so what you want to do, you want to find out where you last were and keep going and when you get to the bottom, watch the bottom when you push the button. Okay? It working now?

LM: I already read it all anyway.

VA: You read all that. Did you read this? You have to read it all, to the very end, okay?

LM: Finished.

VA: Okay, they’ll be right back. Just leave it open, just like it is.

LM: Y’all park back here?

VA: No, we’re parked in the front? We didn’t know there was a parking lot back here.

LM: You the lady that opened that door, right?

VA: Uh, huh.

LM: Why did you leave?

VA: Why did I leave? Cause I wasn’t supposed to be there. I was at dinner with some people and they just paged me on my pager, cause I couldn’t find the key.

LM: You was mad right?

VA: Huh?

LM: You was mad?

VA: No, I wasn’t mad.

LM: You was dealing with some people, business people? You was at dinner with business people?

VA: Friends, family.

LM: You left them at your house?

VA: Huh?

LM: You left them at your house?

VA: No , at a restaurant. It was okay. I get paged sometimes and have to leave. So, it’s okay, I’m used to it. I guess if you weren’t used to it, it would make you mad, huh.

LM: Are you a cop?

VA: Uh uh. I’m a counselor. Remember Teo that you talked to?

LM: Huh?

VA: Remember Teo, the guy that talked to you that night (inaudible.) He and I do the same thing.

LM: You interview people?

VA: Sometimes.

LM: I want to call home.

VA: Let’s ask him. I don’t know if that’s okay or not, need to ask the uh, school, I guess here, the home here.

LM: My home?

VA: This home that you’re staying in right now. I have to ask them. Is that something they let you do?

LM: Yeah. They said that maybe I could call today. I called them. They said we get three times.

VA: You get three calls?

LM: Yeah, called one time, they said I only got one more, but I don’t know who else should I talk to. I talked to my brother that’s in that other shelter and I called home.

VA: Who’d you talk to at home?

LM: My grandpa. I want to talk to my grandma because that day when I talked to my grandpa, my grandma was still in Georgia. I bet my grandma was mad. She didn’t even know nothing about it.

VA: Who knew about it besides you?

LM: My whole family, besides my grandma. I don’t like staying here. I want to go home. My brother has cried, my brother that’s staying over there, he has cried because he wants to go home, my sister has cried cause she wants to go home.

VA: Uh huh.

LM: But then (inaudible) our case worker, she said that she’s going to try to get us somebody that’s related to us to stay with.

VA: Maybe she’ll be able to do that.

LM: We already know who.

VA: Who?

LM: My auntie, Aunt Rosetta. She lives by Fiesta, that store, in them apartments. That’s still on?

VA: That’s okay, they’ll turn it off when they come back in the room.

LM: It’s recording what we’re saying.

VA: That’s okay, doesn’t bother me, does it bother you?

LM: No.

VA: Okay.

LM: What is that there for?

VA: I don’t know, whatever you push any of those buttons, because I don’t know what they do.

LM: (Inaudible.) Trash can.

VA: There’s a trash can right there.

LM: They gonna finish?

VA: Yeah, they’ll be back in just a minute.

LM: What’s today?

VA: Today is Wednesday.

LM: What date?

VA: The 29th. Why?

LM: It goes to the 31st.

VA: I guess it does.

LM: May 29th, 12:05.

VA: That’s what my watch says, my watch says 12:04, though.

LM: My brother has a game at four o’clock and we might go swimming today.

VA: Ooh. Where’s the pool?

LM: I don’t know, but the other people that live here, the other people that live here, I mean that been over there for a while, they been to the swimming pool, it says something creek, Walnut Creek, I think.

VA: Uh huh.

LM: But that lady, Jenny, she’s going to South Carolina today, she’s off duty.

VA: She one of the people that works here?

LM: Over there, at the shelter. She’s off duty today, after five o’clock. We have a mean man now that’s taking care of us. I got early bedtime at eight o’clock. I had it two days in a row. I asked him could I call home until I asked him can I give my grandpa our caseworker’s number so I, we can go, ask her if we can go to somebody else’s house. I don’t like staying over there.

VA: How come?

LM: They’re just mean.

VA: They’re mean? They have lots of rules? Yeah.

LM: I have to ask to go in the kitchen, I have to ask to go everywhere, ask to get a drink of water and go to bed at certain times. We can go to bed at anytime we want at our house (inaudible). We don’t go to bed, go to bed any time we want and we don’t have to ask for nothing, only (inaudible) and juice, something like that. My sister, she’s twelve, she’s going in the sixth grade, I’m going in the seventh grade and I have to go to bed, I’m supposed to go to bed at nine. They get to go to bed at ten, but yesterday she was supposed to go to bed at ten, and she went to bed at eight so, and then she got up cause she didn’t know.

VA: Uh huh.

LM: I got late bedtime today, again, cause I jumped on the floor.

VA: You jumped on what?

LM: On the floor.

VA: You’re not supposed to?

LM: This new man told me I had an early bedtime, eight o’clock, I guess, supposed to go to bed at nine o’clock, but I’m not going to listen to him.

VA: What happens if you don’t listen to him?

LM: Uh, nothing?

VA: Nothing?

LM: But if you like try to threaten somebody, or try to hit somebody or like pretend like you hit somebody or playing with somebody hitting them, they call the police and you go to jail.

VA: Has that happened to anybody?

LM: Yeah, this girl name uh, what’s her name.

VA: Did that happen when you were here?

LM: Yeah, no.

VA: You just heard about it?

LM: That lady told me.

O2: Did you read it all. Is it all true and correct?

LM: Uh huh.

O2: Okay, what grade are you in?

LM: Seventh, I’m going in the seventh.

O2: Are you going in the seventh?

LM: Cleo’s older than me.

O2: She’s twelve.

LM: Yeah she’s going in the sixth.

O2: Well you’re doing pretty good in school, no?

LM: I don’t know.

O2: Huh?

LM: I don’t know. I got (inaudible) though, for fighting and stuff.

O2: Fighting, who were you fighting?

LM: Some boys and some girls.

O2: Why?

LM: Huh?

O2: Why?

LM: Messing with me.

O2: They were messing with you?

LM: Uh huh. Who’s he?

O2: Who? That’s Mark Gilchrist. He’s a detective also.

LM: He just come to get the tape and stuff?

MG: Yeah, I just had to bring this.

LM: You finished?

O2: Yeah, hold on a second. We just got a few more things here.

LM: This is still on.

VA: Is it still on?

O2: The tape?

O3: Probably. yeah, it’s turning.

O2: Do you have a middle name?

O?: Let me see the notebook right quick.

LM: Tandy.

O2: You spell that T-a-n-d-y?

LM: Yeah.

O2: Today is the 29th.

LM: Yeah, it’s on that thing, on that clock.

O2: Oh really?

LM: What’s that?

02: That’s a printer. [inaudible] print.

LM: You gonna put it on paper?

02: Okay. Let’s print this out.

[Inaudible]

[Tape stops. Then resumes.]

O2: You finished? Can you read that out loud?

VA: [Inaudible.]

LM: Uh uh.

O2: No? Why?

LM: I don’t want to.

O2: You remember when I went to your house about two years ago?

LM: No.

O2: No? You were a little smaller then.

LM: Was you in a police suit?

O2: No, I was like this. I was dressed like this. I’D gone to talk to your grandpa.

LM: For what?

O2: That’s when Trenton and Tylor had just moved in and I was talking to them, to him about Trenton’s mom. Did you know their mom?

LM: Uh huh. Is this all of it?

O2: This is the other part, the second part.

LM: I think I remember you.

O2: It was a long time ago.

LM: I was big like I am now.

O2: You had water in the pool then. Yeah, you were small.

LM: Why did you put that like that?

O2: I can read and write the English language?

LM: Why’d you put that like that?

O2: Because this is in English and I want to make sure that you understand.

LM: Oh.

O2: There’s some people that don’t read English. They read, they speak Spanish only.

LM: Oh.

O2: You read it all?

LM: Yeah.

O2: It’s all true?

LM: Yes. And I read right here.

O2: Pardon me?

LM: I read that right here.

O2: I just need for you to sign there. That’s all true and correct. Am I forcing you to sign that?

LM: Yeah

O2: Huh?

LM: No.

O2: Okay, you’re doing this voluntarily?

LM: Uh huh.

O2: You understand what you’re signing?

LM: Yep. It’s true.

O2: That’s all true?

LM: Yeah.

O2: That’s fine. I sign that part.

LM: Y’all keep that?

VA: You want me to witness it?

O2: Sure, yeah, why not. Just witness it right here.

O3: Lacresha, when you told us earlier about Jayla and everything, how long had she been going to the house there, how long was she coming over to the house?

LM: About a month.

O3: About a month.

LM: Probably more.

O3: In that time you, how did you get along with her?

LM: Huh, she’s nice. Every time I do something, she tells on me.

O3: She tells on you? How do feel about that?

LM: Good, cause she doesn’t know what she’s saying.

O3: What do you mean by that?

LM: Huh.

O3: What do you mean she doesn’t know?

LM: If she tells on me, if she tells on me, it’s not clear

O3: You mean because she doesn’t know how to say it?

LM: Yeah, I start laughing.

O3: Okay, did that ever, did her telling on you ever kind of ..

LM: It didn’t get me in trouble.

O3: It didn’t get you in trouble?

LM: My grandma just start laughing too.

O3: I just want to, only reason I want to clear that, if somebody told me that you were fussing at her, was there a reason sometimes why you fussed at her.

LM: Playfulness, yeah. Just to be fussing.

O3: Just to be fussing? Give me an example of something that you’d fuss at her for?

LM: For messing with me.

O3: Well, give me an example of messing with you.

LM: Like hitting me, hitting me.

O3: She’d hit you?

LM: Yeah, I’d just tell her to stop hitting me.

O3: Why would she hit you?

LM: She liked hitting on me.

O3: Why would she do that?

LM: Huh.

O3 Why would she do that?

LM: She liked hitting on everybody.

O3: Was she mad when she hit you?

LM: She doesn’t get mad. She doesn’t get mad.

O3: Would it get you mad if she hit on you?

LM: Uh uh. Only if my bigger sisters and brothers hit on me.

O3: Then what would happen?

LM: Beat em up.

O3: You would beat your bigger , you mean you would beat your bigger brothers and sisters up?

LM: Uh uh. I’d try to though.

O3: Oh. Who’s tougher?

LM: Me.

O3: Oh.

LM: Because my brother’s from Oklahoma. My momma and the daddy from Oklahoma. Only my big sister.

O3: Yeah.

O2: If there was some fussing going on between you and her, what would that be about?

LM: Going places where she wasn’t supposed to go.

O2: Tell me about that.

LM: Huh?

O2: Tell me about that. What did she do? What do mean going to places?

LM: Like going in the kitchen when somebody’s cooking and stuff.

O2: Did she do that?

LM: Huh?

O2: Did she do that?

LM: Uh huh. She likes following my grandma a lot. My grandma wasn’t there though.

O2: But did she do that Friday?

LM: Huh. She went in the kitchen, yeah.

O2: What happened then?

LM: Because she wanted some water. Huh?

O2: Were you there?

LM: Huh?

O2: Were you in the kitchen?

LM: No, I wasn’t in the kitchen, but I was there though. I would say Jayla get out the kitchen. She’d say, I want some water. My sister would give her some water.

O2: So, did you fuss at her on Friday?

LM: Uh uh.

O2: Everything was okay?

LM: Uh huh.

O2: Sit down.

O3: So, if somebody told me that, what would they be talking about, another day or are they talking about, they said that there was some fussing going on between Jayla and you. Maybe could they have heard something?

LM: Probably would be play fussing.

O3: Tell me about what kind of play fussing happened on Friday.

LM: Fussing happened on Friday?

O3: Uh huh.

LM: Between me and Jayla?

O3: Yeah?

LM: Huh?

O3: Yeah, between you and Jayla. I’M just trying to figure out what they’re talking about.

LM: Right before she like, probably not going in the kitchen. I’ll say Jayla, go in that den, you know you’re ain’t supposed to be in there.

O3: Did she do that?

LM: Yeah, she go in the den.

O3: Did she say something to you?

LM: Uh uh. She doesn’t talk that much.

O3: She doesn’t really talk?

LM: She knows how to talk good, but she doesn’t like talking that much. She likes run around and playing with the kids.

O3: Did she do what you told her to do?

LM: Uh huh.

O3: If she doesn’t do what you tell her to do, what happens then?

LM: I go to my grandpa and she’ll go in the den, cause I’ll tell my grandpa. While we in the house, I tell my grandpa and she’ll start running in the den.

O3: Then she runs to the grandpa?

LM: No, she runs to the den.

O3: Why does she do that?

LM: Because she knows I’m fixing to go tell my grandpa and she knows hell make her go into the den.

O3: Oh, so she goes on into the den?

LM: Because I can’t do anything to her. (Inaudible.)

O3: You can’t do anything to her?

LM: Uh uh. You can’t touch her or anything.

O2: Why? What happens when you touch her?

LM: Huh?

O2: What happens when you touch her? You say you can’t touch her?

LM: Well, only like when she’s playing or anything, I can’t like mess with her, and stuff, but yeah I can touch her if she’s like doing something bad like take her, make her, get her by the hand and make her go in the den.

O3: So, what was she doing bad, anything Friday?

LM: Uh uh.

O2: Okay. When you went into the bedroom, you said she was laying on the bed, she had thrown up?

LM: Yeah.

O2: Did she?

LM: Yeah she threw up. When y’all went in, y’all didn’t see nothing did, y’all?

O2: Why?

LM: She didn’t have, Shawntay didn’t have no sheet on her bed. She just had her mattress, she had to wash her sheets. She wash her sheets every Friday, I think.

O3: So, uh, Jayla was just laying on the bed without sheets on it?

LM: Yeah.

O3: Did you say anything when you walked in the room?

LM: She was shaking, I said Jayla, I just called her name. That’s all.

O3: That’s all you said?

O2: Did it get you mad when she threw up?

LM: Uh uh, because that wasn’t my room. If it’d have been my room, I still wouldn’t have gotten mad because she was sick and she was just a little baby.

O3: Did you have to clean up when she got sick?

LM: Huh?

O3: When she got sick, did you have to do any cleaning up?

LM: Uh uh. My sister did.

O3: Your sister?

LM: It was her room.

O3: Shawntay did?

LM: It was her room.

O3: Okay, but she didn’t have to do any of that?

LM: Who me?

O2: Yeah.

LM: No.

O3: Let me ask you about that, we talked earlier about that noise that your grandpa heard?

LM: Oh yeah.

O3: You remember that?

LM: Yeah.

O3: Okay, could that noise have been something that happened in the room, you think?

LM: Probably.

O3: Now that we’ve talked about it and everything. what do you think that noise might have been now, now that we talked about it all, what could that noise have come from? What would have made that noise do you think?

LM: Probably when I dropped her?

O3: Dropped her? Would it have made any noise when you tried to pick her up and kicked her?

LM: Uh uh. I don’t know.

O3: But you think dropping her might have made a noise?

LM: Because it was a concrete, I mean like a hard floor.

O2: Right.

LM: And her head hit the floor first.

O3: Yeah, did it make a noise you heard?

LM: Yeah, I think, yeah, probably.

O3: So you suppose that’s probably the noise he might have heard?

LM: Yeah.

O3: Was that when he yelled out back to you something like what are you doing back there? Was that the time when he yelled?

LM: I guess so.

O3: Right then. So, you think he might have maybe heard that noise or something and maybe didn’t know what it was or something like that, thought you were messing around and then yelled back at you, okay. And then I guess it was pretty much, then the baby had already fallen on the floor, okay.

How much time do you think it was between when the baby fell and when you went ahead and walked on out of the room with the baby?

LM: Huh?

O3: When the baby fell down, did you, and the baby was kicked, did you pick her up right away and walk her straight out?

LM: Ran.

O3: Or was there some time? You ran out?

LM: When I picked her up, I ran.

O3: Okay.

O2: What, how come you were withholding this information about you dropping the baby? Were you scared? What were you afraid of? What were you afraid of?

LM: I don’t know

O2: Just scared?

LM: Uh huh?

O3: Scared of what, Lacresha?

LM: I don’t know.

O3: Well, were you scared of the way people were going to think or were you scared, what were you scared of?

O3: I think you’re telling us some things that are probably pretty, pretty close to the truth, you know, but I don’t think you’re being 100% truthful, I think you are, and you’re trying to help, you’re trying to help us and you’re trying to help yourself. . . Lacresha, but, I think you understand there’s some things that we still need to straighten out, okay? And you know what I’m talking about. Alright? So let’s go ahead and straighten those things out. Now that child had some injuries that were all around different parts of its body, okay? Different parts of her body that really you haven’t explained to us I think in a way that’s satisfactory that can make what you’re telling us believable and understandable, so I don’t think you’re being wholly truthful with us right now and I think it’s important that you do, Lacresha? I think that it’s important that you do talk to us and tell us what really happened. I think some things happened in there and uh maybe it’s difficult to talk about, but by telling us the truth, it’s going to make the whole thing more understandable, it’s going to make it more believable. okay?, by telling us the truth. I think you’re trying right now, you really are, and we’re, we’re going to help you with that. But there’s some things that you’re leaving out, right? I think there’s some things that we need to clear up. There’s some other injuries that just don’t, didn’t happen by the way you’re describing it, alright? So, help me out, tell us a little bit more about what that’s about. We know what you told us. You’re nodding your head, look at me, you’re nodding your head right?

LM: Uh huh.

O3: Okay. So let’s talk about it.

O2: It’s going to be okay.

LM: I don’t know.

O3: Lacresha, I think you do. I know you do, alright?

LM: I don’t.

O3: There’s some other things that we know about that we haven’t even told you about. Everything we’ve talked about here uh is fine and, but there’s some things that you, we haven’t brought out yet, and that’s why I was hoping that you would clear it up for us by telling us what exactly happened there, alright? I think maybe there was something going on, maybe you were upset or something, maybe something had upset you, okay? It might have just been a momentary thing, maybe it was just for a second and then something else happened and maybe it was an accident after that, I don’t know, but I think you’re not telling us the whole thing. Okay?

LM: I don’t know how she got that mark on her shoulder. I don’t.

O2: Well, now it happened at that same time and that mark just didn’t happen by falling

LM: I know.

O2: I know you know and we need to get, you told us the truth, so we need to get to the whole truth now. Okay, Lacresha? We need to get to the whole truth. We’re, I been real good to you and I’ve told you that we’re here to help you and help the family and by doing, the only way to do it is by telling the whole story.

LM: I don’t know how that mark got on her shoulder. I’m telling the truth.

O3: Well, how could it have happened, Lacresha? Why don’t you. Maybe there’s a way you can help us out to understand this. How could something like that happen, because we know the mark’s on there?

LM: I don’t know!

O3: Okay, that baby might have had more than one thing happen to it and I think that that’s where you can help us out is maybe describing exactly what happened again. We know what you told us, but I think there’s some other things that might have happened.

LM: I don’t know how she got that mark on her shoulder. I’m telling you the truth.

O3: Okay. Well, it all happened at the same time, alright?

LM: Uh huh.

O3: Maybe things happened pretty fast, right?

LM: Yeah, but I do not know how she got that mark on her shoulder.

O3: Okay, well, I’m trying to understand what happened, I’M trying to understand that you dropped her and that it was an accident and she hit the ground and that you accidentally kicked her, but what I want you, I want you to understand what I’m getting at is that the story you told us other people are going to listen to the same story, you understand, and they’re going to make up their own mind and some of them aren’t going to believe what you’re saying.

O2: Do you want that to happen? We don’t either.

O3: Okay, now we have to know the absolute truth about this whole thing, for better, for worse, we need to know it. You understand? Alright? And I know its a very hard thing to say and a very difficult thing to say, but sometimes you need to do that. In the long run that’s going to make you look a lot better, then giving us a story that’s only part true. Parts of it are true and maybe, you know, maybe you’re describing some things, but I don’t think you’re telling us what was really going on when all this happened.

LM: But I don’t know how she got the mark on her shoulder.

O3: Okay, she got off the bed cause she was looking bad, right? What happened right before then?

LM: Huh?

O3: What was going on when you went into that room?

LM: She was shaking.

O3: What made you decide to just go into that room?

LM: Huh?

O3: Why did you go into the room?

LM: I looked in there, at first, I looked in there, she was shaking. That’s when I decided to go in there.

O3: Okay, when you walked in, what happened as soon as you walked in the room?

O3: Okay, you ran in the room. Now what was going on?

LM: She was shaking.

O3: What was going on in your mind then? Something was going on?

LM: That I gotta take her out the room and give her to my grandpa? Okay?

O3: No, don’t look at me. I want you to be able to tell us. There was something else going on. Now, tell me what was that that was going on?

LM: In my mind?

O3: In your mind.

LM: When I went in there?

O3: Uh huh.

LM: I had to get her out of there.

O3: Why?

LM: Because she was shaking and stuff. She was breathing funny.

O3: Okay, before you saw all that though.

LM: Huh?

O3: What else was going on?

LM: Nothing.

O2: How did you feel?

LM: Huh?

O3: When you went in the room, how were you feeling? So, you just saw her, you’re saying you just saw her, and picked her up off the bed, and then tripped, dropped her and then accidentally kicked her?

LM: Yes and then I was taking her to my grandpa or I was trying to take her to my grandpa, at first.

O3: And that’s what happened?

LM: Yes.

O3: Okay, and you we’ren’t happy, sad, angry or anything at that moment?

LM: Sad.

O3: You were sad? When were you sad?

LM: When I seen that, when we had to take her to the hospital cause I was scared, and her head was leaning back like this.

O3: And you were sad about that?

LM: Yeah, because her eyes were half way across and I didn’t even know what was.

O3: You didn’t know, well you knew what was going on, right?

LM: Huh?

O3: You knew what was going on.

LM: What was going on?

O3: Well, you knew why she was like that, didn’t you?

LM: No, I didn’t.

O3: You didn’t think that dropping her and kicking her...

LM: Oh. oh.

O3: Had anything to do with it?

LM: Oh.

O3: So, you did know what was going on?

LM: Well, that.

O3: Alright, the one thing we don’t know though, the one thing we don’t know is what was going on in your mind.

LM: Nothing.

O3: And I think there was something else going on when you went into that room.

LM: Nothing.

O3: There was something else going on in your mind when you went into that room.

LM: Nope.

O3: She didn’t just slip out of your hand and drop down.

LM: No, I tripped.

O3: You tripped.

LM: Yes.

O3: And you dropped her.

LM: My hands, I had her, I had her like this and I tripped like that. Wasn’t nothing going on in my mind.

O2: The doctor said that those injuries were more than just a drop. He says somebody had to go like this (Officer makes a hard, sharp hitting sound against something solid).

LM: Oh.

O3: And kick.

02: It’s hard..

O3: A hard kick and its a lot more than what you’re telling us. We want to believe you, but you need to be honest with us.

LM: I don’t know.

O2: There’s nobody else that knows. You’re the only one that was there in that room. You were the only person in that room with that baby and that baby died. And those injuries were caused by something more than just dropping the baby and accidentally kicking the baby.

LM: Well, I don’t know.

O2: Well, then there’s nobody else that knows except you. You were the only one there with that baby.

LM: (Whispered) Yeah, but I don’t know.

O3: Could you have been angry or?

LM: Uh uh. At her?

O3: Why do you say that?

LM: Angry at her?

O3: Yeah.

LM: Uh, uh.

O3: Could you be angry at somebody else?

LM: Probably.

O3: Okay, who were you angry at? Who got you mad, tell me. I know it was going on? Who got you mad at that moment?

LM: Nobody.

O3: Somebody got you mad at that moment.

LM: No.

O3: Okay. Who was it?

LM: Nobody!

O2: Somebody got you mad. Was it Grandpa?

LM: Uh uh, he was sleep.

O2: Was it Cleo?

O3: Cleo.

LM: No.

O2: What did Cleo do to you?

LM: Nothing.

O3: Somebody did something and you know it!

LM: No, I don’t!

O3: Okay, and you were, listen to me. You just told us that you could have been mad. We’ve already talked to everybody else that was in that house. We have a good idea that was going on, what was going on at that moment when you were back there.

LM: What?

O3: Okay, I’m not going to tell you. This is. We’re giving you the opportunity to tell us, okay, we’re giving you the opportunity to unload on us, to do the right thing, okay, now you were angry at something.

LM: No.

O3: And all I want to know is what woke, who you were angry at?

LM: Nobody.

O3: Or what you were angry at?

LM: Nobody.

O3: Lift your head up, okay. Something got you angry then.

LM: Nobody!

O3: Was it Jayla?

LM: No.

O3: Okay, it wasn’t Jayla.

LM: Uh, uh.

O3: So, you didn’t have nothing, no anger at her?

LM: What would she do to make me mad?

O3: I don’t know. Tell me.

LM: Nothing.

O3: Okay, then, who was it?

LM: Nobody!

O2: Do you just get angry for no reason?

LM: I wasn’t even angry.

O2: Was it for fun, then? Did you enjoy that?

LM: What?

O2: Causing those injuries to the baby. If you were not angry, you must have been

LM: I wasn’t even angry

O2: So, then you must have enjoyed what you were doing then. because there’s a reason why somebody would cause those injuries to the baby. Was it cause you were angry or because you were..

LM: I was...

O2: You were enjoying it?

LM: I wasn’t even angry, I wasn’t enjoying it, I was just, I was regular, happy.

O3: You were what?

LM: Happy.

O3: You were happy?

LM: I wasn’t angry.

O3: So you were happy when that happened?

LM: No! y’all said I was angry, angry at what?

O2: We’re asking you if you were angry.

LM: I wasn’t angry at nobody!

O3: Lacresha, the way you described that, the way, how that baby got hurt isn’t the way that the baby got hurt, okay. Now you’re trying to help us out, you’re trying to tell us the truth. All we’re asking for..

LM: That’s what I’m telling you!

O3: Okay, but there, all we’re asking for is a little bit more from you, that’s all and that’s all we need to know.

LM: That’s all I know!

O3: We need to know, what happened, what was going on the second before that baby dropped on the floor, alright?

LM: Nothing!

O3: Those injuries did not come from that baby just dropping down on the floor.

LM: Well that’s...

O3: And then accidentally kicking it.

LM: But that’s what I know. That’s probably not what all happened, but that’s what I know and

O3: Well...

LM: I’m not saying nothing else.

O3: You need to tell us what happened, okay. We’re not here to tell you, you need to tell us..

LM: I just told you!

O3: Because you were there. Lacresha, you were there in that room and you need to tell us what happened.

LM: I just told you!

O3: And I’m telling you that those injuries on that child did not come from you dropping her.

LM: Well that’s..

O3: And just accidentally kicking her that one time?

LM: Well that’s probably not what, that’s probably not what happened.

O3: Well then, right at this second, you look at me and you tell me what happened.

LM: I don’t know!

O3: Yes, you do. You were there. Now, tell me!

LM: No. because I...

O3: You said that’s probably not what happened.

LM: No, no. No. I didn’t!

O3: You said its probably not what happened.

LM: No. I didn’t. I said that’s what happened. That’s probably not how the injuries got on her, but I know that’s what happened.

O3: Okay, how did ...

LM: But I don’t. Huh?

O3: How did they get on her?

LM: I don’t know! I don’t know if anybody else did something to her, but that’s all I know, what I did to her, is accidentally dropped her and accidentally kicked her. That’s all I know and I’m not saying nothing else cause I don’t know nothing. Don’t ask me no more questions.

O3: Okay

02: We’ve given you the opportunity to talk to us and tell us the truth.

LM: I am!

O2: We’re just trying to explain to you the circumstances surrounding the death of Jayla and if you don’t want to talk to us, that’s fine, we won’t talk to you.

LM: I just told you all I know.

O2: Okay.

[Tape ends.]